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Tim Miller's avatar

Great post, thanks!

Process theology and open and relational theology got me praying petitionary prayers again. Before them, I felt like trying to convince God to do something, or trying to inform God of needs, were absurd if God cared and knew stuff already. But the luring concept, as you describe, plus the idea that not just God lures but we lure too, made it make sense to think that my ardent feelings can stream out into the universe and into the mind of God and maybe some others like me can prehend them and help bring about the good (I hope) ends I pray for.

Innomen's avatar

That’s a solid definition. Communication vs manipulation, but there’s a lot of nuance here. After all, speech itself is manipulative. To be heard is to be experienced. You are inducing that. Context alters meaning and you’re adding context when you speak such to cause experience. Even your own.

How vs why, science vs philosophy, magic as science, religion as ontology, all of it cosmology in a sense.

Also I think faith is a bit like a fetish, you acquire it in youth and then it stays with you regardless of other factors. The brain loses plasticity as it developes.

Your never seeing miracle healings is provable in a narrow sense. It should be a genuine theological question why god has never seen fit to regrow a limb. Though now we’re in an era where that could be faked, and history edited to make accounts of it plentiful.

As a dim witted teenager I genuinely believed bringing the problem of evil to religious people would change them. To this day I wonder how much of my faith in discourse is equally firm wired. I think like it’s pointless but I keep trying in some contexts.

Desperation? Biological lock? Who knows. I lost interest in god when it became clear that there was legitimate criteria to judge him. His entire value proposition was experience management. Threats and bribes basically. I didn’t know this consciously of course but basically he got demoted.

It’s like how in school you eventually realize the bell out ranks the teacher. And the teachers out rank your parents, and the cops out rank the teachers, and so on.

Sorting all this out is how I ended up where I am. It’s All just experience. And the structure and valence of it given.

God can exist within experience, but basically he’s just a very powerful alien. Experience only allows room for a very poor quality god. Calling it a god is misleading imo. Epistemology is this type of thinking dialed up to 11. All the clever god contradictions are like epistemology 101.

Great post man, thanks for the inspiration.

I’m tired of being homeless.

Side note, prayer and wishing are very related, and to me wishing is a baited hook. I maintain that any wish can be twisted. (Monkey paw, evil genie, etc.) A wish can be failed also, as in “be careful what you wish for.”

I don’t have any tattoos because I could never think of anything worthy to print forever on my skin. I don’t like decisions I can’t undo. I don’t like constraining my future self.

Similarly, I don’t have any prayers with any chance of being answered even in spirit, if I could even form them satisfactorily in the first place.

Reality is comprehensively broken. And praying to the inventor of cancer seems unwise. If it clearly won’t save me, it feels like a right to remain silent type deal. https://philpapers.org/rec/SERRRT-3 and https://philpapers.org/rec/SERTEC

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